How many Ioun stones can one have hovering around their head? Is there even a maximum?

Not by RAW, but many DMs limit the number of ioun stones you can use at the same time.

Unslotted item means it doesn't take up a slot. You can have as many of them as you want.

But to clarify: if you take the same ones, they don't stack.

I do seem to recall hearing about Grey Ioun stones that do nothing except look cool. A friend of mine suggested having about 300 of them orbiting your head for scaring away insects.

Casting continual flame on the Grey Ioun Stones makes a great hands free torch. Well worth 75gp.

They are nice if you use psionics.

But to clarify: if you take the same ones, they don't stack.


If I took multiple +1caster lvl ioun stones why would they not stack?

me and my group want to create a demilich that is just the head that has so many ioun stones that they are all you can see, but that is just for stupid fun

If I took multiple +1caster lvl ioun stones why would they not stack?
No they wouldn't. They're a bonus from the same source - so they don't stack.

They are a un-named bonus from a non-slot item why would they not?

Stacking
In most cases, modifiers to a given check or roll stack (combine for a cumulative effect) if they come from different sources and have different types (or no type at all), but do not stack if they have the same type or come from the same source (such as the same spell cast twice in succession). If the modifiers to a particular roll do not stack, only the best bonus or worst penalty applies. Dodge bonuses and circumstance bonuses however, do stack with one another unless otherwise specified.

It's the same source.

It's the same source.

You are taking the word source wrong, the "source" is the stone, multiple stones are different "sources." Now it also states it stacks if there is no typre at all and the stone says +1 caster level. That is not a type. Type being enhancement,divine,profane,ect......

No, that's not true.

The source is the stone. Just like 2 of the same spells (like 2 Rays of Enfeeblement - which are also unnamed penalties) don't stack, neither do these ioun stones. Two ioun stones are still the same source.

What if you make custom ioun stones that do exactly the same, but have a different name 'Twisted Hackz0rz Pink-Purpelish shade of Green Ioun Stone'?

Would those stack? They are different source...

You're making a custom item. That's always subject to DM fiat.

You can just say you make an item that has wish useable as will, by custom item guidelines that costs less than 300.000 gold. Just to say - custom items always need DM approval.

Like, this is like making shoes of teleportation instead of boots of teleportation. It does not add anything new, it does not change price, it merely changes the name of the item.

In which case it's the same item, and does not add.

Is the +1 caster level stacking fun? If the answer is Yes than it should be allowed. The Limit in ion stones you can have is the number of ion stones you can have around your head before you run out of space.

Is the +1 caster level stacking fun? If the answer is Yes than it should be allowed. The Limit in ion stones you can have is the number of ion stones you can have around your head before you run out of space.
You can have infinite ioun stones around your head, as per the rules. They are unslotted.

Poor Witch. He is right, but horribly outnumbered.

By same source, it means the exact same effect.
For example, Haste grants and unnamed +1 bonus to AC, Reflex saves, and attack rolls.
Haste wouldn't stack with itself. It would only overlap the duration.


You are taking the word source wrong, the "source" is the stone, multiple stones are different "sources." Now it also states it stacks if there is no typre at all and the stone says +1 caster level. That is not a type. Type being enhancement,divine,profane,ect......
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No. Multiple stones are different stones, but they are identical. They are the same source. The source of each +1 is an "Orange Ioun Stone", and all of the stones are just that. Unnamed would mean it would stack with something that granted a +1 Profane bonus to your caster level, for example.

You can have infinite ioun stones around your head, as per the rules. They are unslotted.

I thought they only worked if they were something like 1 feet (whatever that is in a real scale) away from your head. So you could only have so many Ion stones before you choke or get crushed from them.

Here's a very rough equation:

Ioun stones can be anywhere from 1-3 feet from your body. Therefore, they occupy a volume = (4/3*3.14*18^3)-(4/3*3.14*6^3) cubic inches: 23512.3 cubic inches.

My upper body occupies roughly 2310 cubic inches. Excluding 18 inches of my upper body (basing the 1 foot empty radius on a point 6 inches below the top of my head), that is very roughly 1155 cubic inches, allowing a total of 22357.3 cubic inches of Ioun fill-able space.

If an ioun stone is a 2 inch cube, its volume = 8 cubic inches. That means that you can fit roughly 2794.7 ioun stones around your head before there's no space left

YES! I was waiting for that! Kids, Don't let your parents tell you laziness doesn't pay off!

And Thanks CryoSilver.

No problem.

It appears higher end math has finally proven usefull...... n.n;

It's worth noting that at this point

You can't see
You can't breathe
The stones are packed in too tightly to move and can't technically "orbit"

It's worth noting that at this point

The stones are packed in too tightly to move and can't technically "orbit"


I don't know, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to grind around scraping against each other (and your face) once they're packed that tightly. Have you ever wondered what it'd be like to stick your head in a gem-polisher? *grins*

My upper body occupies roughly 2310 cubic inches.

How'd you figure that one out? :confused:

Water displacement. I dunked myself into a bucket of water, and had someone mark where the level rose to. Then we just popped that into the cylinder equation, based on the height of the water before I dunked and what I displaced, and that's about what we got. :)

Wow, uh, you're dedicated to these boards, aren't you... :eek:
Or was that for some other purpose other than calculating ioun stone numbers?

Nah; it was just somethin to do.

Well since you know your volume, you can calculate your density, so if people call you dense, you have a number.

*cough*

I think because ioun stones are more or less spherical, it's impossible for them to pack so tightly that you can't breathe. There's small spaces between them that air can pass through easily. I mean jump into a really deep ball pit. You can still breath because there's space between the balls.
I also think they'd still sort of orbit, it'd just be slower and there'd be occasional light grinding sounds from them bumping into eachother. If you could picture taking a bunch of those balls from the ball pit (they're hollow; they float) and dropping them in a spherical pool until the entire surface of the water is covered with balls and then get the water moving in a circle, the balls will spin, too.

I also don't think that three-foot limit is that absolute.



I just had a thought... Imagine making a jello mould filled with ioun stones. A three-foot translucent jello hemisphere with a big hole in the middle for your head and filled with however many dull greys it'd take to lift the thing. I see a very silly mage picking this thing up holding it over his head and giving it a little nudge to start it spinning. Posing for images. Answering questions. Trying to eat the inside surface and finding that if he moves real quick, the jelloun stone can't keep up because the jello is slowing down the stones.

Oh, I'm pretty friggin' dense, BC; at least, my ex keeps telling me that.

Cryosilver, are you sure you did that right? Unless i'm terribly mistaken, 1 foot=12 inches, giving you 36 in. and 12 in. respectively. Thus,
(4/3*3.14)(36^3-12^3)=188098.56 in^3, or 108.8533 ft^3.
is your volume (factored out the sphere equation parts for easier math)

I'm asuming they are orbiting 1-3 feet from the center of your head.
Also, when looking at the pictures the stones look much smaller than an 2 in. cube. I see them as marble sized, but for the purpose of calculation, i'll go with your 2 in. cube. (8 in.^3)
My calculations show around 23,512.32 stones. The only problem here is that this counts the space within 1 foot from your torso, including space occupied from your torso itself. You could always divide the number in half to make a hemisphere, having the stones orbit above your head only.

Cryosilver, did you half the distances in calculation? If they can be 1-3 feet from your body, then 1 and 3 feet are your radiuses respectively. 3 feet on right, 3 feet on left. If so, your figure should be about 1/8th mine ( (1/2)^3 = (1/8)).

So to be safe, 10,000 stones could orbit in a hemisphere 1-3 feet above your head with no problem at all. (although such a mass might obstruct vision) How the PCs are going to come across 10k magical stones is another question.

Hey, you're right; I did. Thanks for pointing that out.

Guys:


Can anyone support the position that orange ions stone do stack, or is everyone in agreement that they do not stack?

They don't stack.

As a general rule, unnamed bonuses only stack if they are from different sources. Multiple orange ioun stones do not stack because you have several unnamed "+1 caster lv" bonuses all effectively from the same source - the orange ioun stone. Unless stated otherwise.

The same logic applies to why multiple divine graces do not stack(a paladin who somehow accesses 2 or more divine graces still only adds his cha mod to his saves once). Likewise, archmage spell power can only be taken once(while there is nothing stopping you from taking it multiple times, it is counterproductive since they will not stack). Note that this is a different case for the heirophant, since it does explicitly state that multiple divine spell powers do stack, but since the archmage prc lacks such a reminder, we have to assume it does not stack. :)

Guys:


Can anyone support the position that orange ions stone do stack, or is everyone in agreement that they do not stack?

well since they clearly don't stack under the RAW... I would think you would be hard pressed to find anyone capable of providing evidentuary support of the former position.

We have heard some RAWslawyers claiming they stack, because it's not bonus, but it just increases CL.

Very little in the "RAW" is clear, it is all up to interpretation. Now we can often assume there is only one "spirit of the rules", and in this case I'd like to find a DM that would say the spirit of the ioun stones is to buy as many Orange ones as you can for super-high caster level.

Here I will settle this stack/dont stack problem here and now...

ASK YOUR DM IF THEY STACK!!!

if he says yes then take advantage of his un-exp to the matter, but if he says they dont then go take some lvl in red mage or something.

IF your the DM I would let my players use Two Orange stones for a max of +2 spell level, its not alot like inf. stone & spell lvls, but you can have more than just one so you please the player so you can keep the fun with out having a broken overpowered char.

Am I the only one who couldn't help getting a picture in my
mind of some sort of animated disco ball monster while I
was reading this thread? *shudders* Die 70's Die!