Been thinking about this for a while now. What feats are there that combine to become greater than the sum of there parts. I'm thinking about lists of 2-3 feats that results in an especialy powerful effect.

Anyone else got any favouite feat combos?

Lord Kiwi,

EDIT: I've tried to sort them into a few broad categories.

COMBOS SO FAR
CHARGING
Knockback (RoS), Shock Trooper (CW) and Improved Trip (PHB)
Optional: Three Mountains style, Elusive Target, Karmic Strike, Battle Jump
Each time you hit someone, you get a free bull rush, you can steer them into an ally and get 2 free trips which result in a further 2 free attacks.
Three Mountains style is likely to make then waste there entire next turn standing up.
Elusive Target helps to avoid the potential backlash if you opponent has power attack from the massive AC loss. Karmic Strike also helps with this.

Shock Trooper (CW) and Leap Attack (CAdv)
Optional: Elusive Target, Karmic Strike, Battle Jump
Massive damage on a charge without a to hit penalty. Elusive Target and Karmic Strike help deal with the repercussions of the resulting low AC.

Shock Trooper (CW), Knockback (RoS) and Rampaging Bull Rush (RoS)
Optional: Combat Brute, Leap Attack, Karmic Strike, Battle Jump
This effectively allows the charger to effectively setup his Heedless Charges every round.

Shock Trooper (CW), Power Lunge (S&F) and Karmic Strike(CW)
Provoke an attack of opportunity on a charge but deal insane damage twice.
NOTE: Power Lunge is a 3.0 feat.

Snow Tiger Berserker, Two Weapon Fighting and Blood-Spiked Charger
NOTE: Where's Blood-Spiked Charger from?

Charging Smite, Powerful Charge and Leap Attack
Heavy charging damage for a paladin.

ATTACKS OF OPPORTUNITY
NOTE: Where ever you see Karmic Strike (CW) you can replace, or add to it, with the feat Robilar's Gambit (PHBII). Generaly considered superior but reqires a higher level.

Karmic Strike (CW) and Double Hit (MiniHB)
Optional: Deft Opportunist, Double Hit
They hit you, you hit them back twice. Works best for a Monk.

Hold the Line, Karmic Strike and Sidestep Charge
Optional: Deft Opportunist, Double Hit
If they charge you, you get 2 AoO, if your opponent hits you or if he misses.

Elusive Target (CW) and Defensive Throw (CW)
Optional: Opportunist rogue class feature
Use Diverting Defence to activate Defensive Throw. With the Opportunist feature you can also get another attack if the Diverted attack hits.

Karmic Strike (CW) and Arcane Strike (CW)
Optional: Double Hit
Allows for full use of the extra hit and damage by granting you more attacks.

DEFENSIVE
Improved Feint and Staggering Strike
Sneak attack a foe and only allow them a standard action to retaliate.

Karmic Strike (CW) and Sidestep (MiniHB)
Optional: Elusive Target, Deft Opportunist
Great for stopping a full attack action.

Karmic Strike (CW) and Improved Disarm/Sunder (PHB)
As near as you'll get to a Parry effect. It's possibly that the AoO from Karmic strike resolves before the damage from the attack so you may be able to stop the attack entirely, although this is open to individual interpretations of the rules.

Dive for Cover (CV) and Kip Up (CW)
Reroll all reflex saves.

Hold the Line and Large and in Charge
Knock a charging foe back so they can't reach you to attack.

Quickstaff (CW), Combat Expertise (PHB) and Allied Defense(Shining South)
Optional: Improved Combat Expertise
You sacrifice 5 BAB and you and all adjecent allies gain +7AC.

MAGIC
Precocious Apprentice and Arcane Mastery
Precocious Apprentice lets you cast a spell like blindness/deafness as long as you succeed at a level 8 CL check - which Arcane Mastery lets you take 10 on.

COMBOS WITH CLASS FEATURES
Elusive Target, Defensive Throw and Opprotunist class feature (Rogue, PHB)
Optional: Combat Focus and Combat Defense
While flanked by A and B. A attacks, hitting B allowing you to trip A (free attack from improved trip) and if A hit B you can try and trip B too.
With the optional feats you can reassign the Dodge bonus to work against a second pair of foes.

Power Attack and Dextrous Attack (Arcane Duelist 3 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a))
Speaks for itself really.

OTHER
Flick of the Wrist (CW), Hamstring (CW) and Spring Attack (PHB)
OR
Spring Attack(PHB) and Staggering Strike(CA)
Stop your foe from catching up with you.

Eagle Claw Attack (CW) and Combat Brute (CW)
Does great Sundering Cleave damage.

Improved Trip, Shock Trooper, Combat Brute and Improved Sunder
Trip, sunder and hit, all in one attack.

Improved Disarm and Improved Unarmed strike
For stealing weapons.

Two-weapons Fighting and Improved Unarmed strike
Fight with a 2 handed weapon and a kick as a off-hand weapon

High Sword Low Axe (CW) and Double Hit (MiniHB)
Every time you make an AoO, you get a free off-hand attack. If both attacks hit, you get a free trip attempt. If your trip succeeds, you get a free attack against your (now prone) foe.
The Knockdown feat (S&F) works better than High Sword Low Axe but it's a 3.0 feat.

Anvil of Thunder (CW) and Double Hit (MiniHB)
Potential daze effect every time you use an AoO.

Combat Reflexes, Karmic Strike, Ribalds Gambit, Elusive Target, Improved Trip and Defensive Sweep
Coupled with Knight 3 makes it nearly impossible to escape from.
NOTE: I have no idea where Knight and Ribald's Gambit are from so I can't really explain how this works.

Karmic Strike, Deft Opportunist and Improved Disarm
Enemy hits you, you disarm them, with a +8 bonus to the check. Works best with a spiked chain.

Spring Attack and Improved Trip
Optional: Unbalancing Blow (Dragon #295)
Option A: Bounding Assault (PHBII), Rapid Blitz (PHBII)
Option B: Improved Disarm
Spring attack and knock foe over. Retreat so they can't counterattack.
Option A: Take the first two attacks as normal. Use the final attack at -10 to trip the opponent (since it only requires a touch attack). Same deal, more damage.
Option B: Trip an opponent and take away its weapons. If combined with option A, use your first attack to trip - that way, you have the best chance to disarm the opponent. First attack to trip, bonus attack to disarm (with +4 from Improved Disarm, enemy at -4 due to being prone). Second and third attacks to deal damage.

The classic Karmic Strike (CW) + Sidestep (MiniHB) is great for stopping a full attack action. Combine that with Elusive Target (CW), since you already have the prereqs and you're really hard to smack around.

Don't forget to add Three Mountains style - with this group of feats, they have to save or be nauseated if you hit someone twice - all they can do next round is stand up if they fail...

e.g.
Knockback (RoS), Shock Trooper (CW) and Improved Trip (PHB): Each time you hit someone, you get a free bull rush, you can stear them into an allie and get 2 free trips which result in a further 2 free attacks.

And, obviously, Shock trooper+ Karmic Strike+ Combat Reflexes.
Or Improved Trip + Shock Trooper + Combat Brute (Sundering Cleave) + Improved Sunder...Charge your opponent, trip him, sunder his weapon with the follow up attack (his attack rolls are at -4 for being prone, and you have a great bonus to damage due to shock trooper and PA) and then hit him too :D

edit: nevermind, i probably should go look up some of these feats before i comment.

eudas

Improved disarm + Imp. Unarmed strike : for stealing weapons

Improved Trip + Improved grapple : grab on the ground

Two-weapons fighting + IMP. unarmed strike : fight with a 2 handed weapon and a kick as a off-hand weapon

Karmic Strike+Double Hit (MiniHB?)+Combat Reflexes. Works best for a Monk.

Throw in Deft Opportunist.

I can't believe everyone's using the same general idea (they hit/miss, and you hit them back harder) without working in Sidestep Charge (XPH, nonpsionic feat -- it's mislabelled in the print version; the errata and SRD fixed it). Negates the Karmic Strike AC penalty against chargers, plus if they MISS you also get an AoO. Combines extremely well with Elusive Target.

Two-weapons fighting + IMP. unarmed strike : fight with a 2 handed weapon and a kick as a off-hand weapon

Wha? you can do that? are you sure?

Well, if you're a monk it is: (emphasis mine)

Unarmed Strike

At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. his means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes.

And you can TWF as a monk so... I don't see the problem.

I can't believe everyone's using the same general idea (they hit/miss, and you hit them back harder) without working in Sidestep Charge (XPH, nonpsionic feat -- it's mislabelled in the print version; the errata and SRD fixed it). Negates the Karmic Strike AC penalty against chargers, plus if they MISS you also get an AoO. Combines extremely well with Elusive Target.

Well, maybe that's because you're quite likely to be hit when someone else charges, so I think Hold the Line is generally better; if you have both and they charge and miss you, however, you should be able to attack twice (1st opportunity for being charged, 2nd opportunity when you're missed on a charge).

So, what about Hold the Line + Karmic Strike + Sidestep Charge? If they charge you, you get 2 AoO both if your opponent hits you or if he misses.

hold on. are you saying a monk with a two handed weapon can kick as a off hand attack?

That is Insane!

hold on. are you saying a monk with a two handed weapon can kick as a off hand attack?
And it's not actually considered "off hand", so you get your full Str bonus to damage, too.

Check the sig. ;)

hold on. are you saying a monk with a two handed weapon can kick as a off hand attack?

That is Insane!

Try this one on for size -- Snow Savant's chaingun tripper already uses some of the feat combinations here (including Karmic Strike, Hold the Line, Side Step, Combat Reflexes... might want to benefit from Sidestep Charge as well considering the highish AC for fighters it gets).

Keep the TWF feats, but swap it to a spiked chain. Add Improved Unarmed Strike, and armor spikes (or similar material). Monk levels might help, too, but not as much as you'd think.

You now get Snow's insane trippage power within 10', while 2-handed, and you can make full TWF attacks with your kicks within 5'.

If you use a homebrew feat based on Eberron's martial monk feats (like Double Steel Strike, which treats the two-bladed sword as a monk weapon) that's keyed to the spiked chain, and have at least one level of monk in there, you get ANOTHER extra attack with either your unarmed strike or your chain. This is homebrew, though.

This is all nonmagical, by the way, so it's all stackable with Haste or Speed weapons.

Potential for up to eight attacks (possibly more with magic), plus full Combat Reflexes, with a reach of 10' and TWF within 5', all with weapons capable of tripping or disarming.

If you are TWFing then you have an off hand attack. Without the FAQ you cannot use a monk's unarmed strikes for off hand attacks at all, with the FAQ a monk gets 1/2 str on an off hand unarmed strike.

Non monks can also use kicks for unarmed strikes though.
Unarmed Attacks: Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts is much like attacking with a melee weapon

So, what about Hold the Line + Karmic Strike + Sidestep Charge? If they charge you, you get 2 AoO both if your opponent hits you or if he misses.

Or Hold the Line +Karmic Strike+ Double Hit+ Sidestep+Combat Reflexes:

Your opponent charges...you get 2 atts off your AoO (Hold the Line+Double Hit). Your opponent attacks. If he misses, you can move away (sidestep). If he HITS, you get two more atts on an AoO (Karmic Strike+Double Hit).

That's four attacks to his one...and you can sidestep any full attack. They are all at your Full Attack, and get a +4 if you go Deft Opportunist.

Also...Large and in Charge.

This has me thinking about a character concept built mainly around Attack of Opportunity feats and a High Dex (for Combat Ref).

Or Hold the Line +Karmic Strike+ Double Hit+ Sidestep+Combat Reflexes:

Your opponent charges...you get 2 atts off your AoO (Hold the Line+Double Hit). Your opponent attacks. If he misses, you can move away (sidestep). If he HITS, you get two more atts on an AoO (Karmic Strike+Double Hit).

That's four attacks to his one...and you can sidestep any full attack. They are all at your Full Attack, and get a +4 if you go Deft Opportunist.

Also...Large and in Charge.

This has me thinking about a character concept built mainly around Attack of Opportunity feats and a High Dex (for Combat Ref).

Add in Stand Still (the other interesting tactical nonpsionic XPH feat) and you can play the role of a tripper where tripping isn't effective. Plus, with Double Hit, it really doesn't matter about the lost damage -- you're getting it in addition to your normal one AoO damage. :D

Don't take Deft Opportunist. Feats are too hard to come by. All AoO are made at your highest attack bonus. So don't take Deft Opportunist. It's wasteful.

Don't take Deft Opportunist. Feats are too hard to come by. All AoO are made at your highest attack bonus. So don't take Deft Opportunist. It's wasteful.
Not if you specialise in AoOs. +4 to hit with most of your attacks is rather nice. If you don't like the bonus because you already use your best BAB then what about power attack? Can't say no to 4-8 extra damage a hit.

I thought of making a Gish based on AoOs once but couldn't quite fit in all the feats to make it work. Use normal action for a spell and AoOs to attack.

Glad to see so many good ideas here, maybe I should take them and paste them into the first post. Make it a nice place for fighters to look for inspiration.

Lord Kiwi,

Edit: If I missed anything that has already been said, PM me. I've done a little editing when I put the list at the top, hopefully just to make things clearer, not mess up the ideas.

If you're taking Shock Trooper(CW), Leap Attack (CAdv) is almost a must.

For example. Using a two handed weapon, a 6th level human fighter with Power attack, Improved Bull Iush, Improved sunder, Dodge, Mobility, Shock Trooper (CW), and Leap Attack (CW) can power attack for 18 (-6) on a charge, get +2 to the attack roll and -8 to AC for the round. At level 8 that fighter can take Combat Brute (CW Fighter Bonus) and 9th Elusive Target(CW) (To avoid the backlash of the -AC in power attack on the following round.) After that, if they want to grab up cleave/greatcleave and specialize in a two hander (Spiked Chain, Greatsword or Warclub are big favorates, as well as Falchion/Scyth). You CAN actually get a really powerful character out of a 20th level fighter with Tactical feats. Course Hold person is still a pain.

If you're taking Shock Trooper(CW), Leap Attack (CAdv) is almost a must.

For example. Using a two handed weapon, a 6th level human fighter with Power attack, Improved Bull Iush, Improved sunder, Dodge, Mobility, Shock Trooper (CW), and Leap Attack (CW) can power attack for 18 (-6) on a charge, get +2 to the attack roll and -8 to AC for the round. At level 8 that fighter can take Combat Brute (CW Fighter Bonus) and 9th Elusive Target(CW) (To avoid the backlash of the -AC in power attack on the following round.) After that, if they want to grab up cleave/greatcleave and specialize in a two hander (Spiked Chain, Greatsword or Warclub are big favorates, as well as Falchion/Scyth). You CAN actually get a really powerful character out of a 20th level fighter with Tactical feats. Course Hold person is still a pain.

I've read the Elusive Target feat, and i cannot see where it helps you avoid the backlash of the -AC in power attack on the following round.
Can you explain more in details this last part?
Thanks.

Not if you specialise in AoOs. +4 to hit with most of your attacks is rather nice. If you don't like the bonus because you already use your best BAB then what about power attack? Can't say no to 4-8 extra damage a hit.


Yes it's nice, but by the time you're an optimized AoO dude your BAB should be a mile high.

DMs are adaptive; it's a waste, even with power attack, because it's one more feat dedicated to a one trick pony. Better off taking a feat which is enabled all the time.

As for the monk fighting with a 2-handed sword and kicking... are you sure this is possible? I mean, just because you can kick someone while holding a 2-handed sword doesn't mean that you can do both at the same time. If so, nothing would forbid a monk with two-weapon fighting from having 3 attacks, one with each hand and a kick. And why not with both feet, for a total of 4 attacks? Besides, 2-weapon fighting is for fighting with a weapon on each hand, not to fight with an extra attack. If so, 2-weapon fighting alone would be enough to attack with axe + armor spikes (and we know there's this feat, Axespike, in RoS) and halberd + butt end of halberd (Spinning Halberd feat).

Sang-Drax, this is a bit off topic ... so I replied in a new thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5997076#post5997076).

Yes it's nice, but by the time you're an optimized AoO dude your BAB should be a mile high.

DMs are adaptive; it's a waste, even with power attack, because it's one more feat dedicated to a one trick pony. Better off taking a feat which is enabled all the time.

Well, if you have combat reflexes, and use karmic strike you'll be making 4/5 AoO / round at higher levels. That's more attacks than you would do with a full attack. How is that the feat is not enabled all the time? Anyone who hits you is hit in return. In a specialized build, this feat is quite good. Sure, there are better feats you can take, but I'd not say DO is a "waste" in a proper build. Sure, you rely on AoO to deal damage, but can an opponent avoid an AoO coming from KS in melee? Generally, no.

I'd like to add another combo, or rather to improve an existing one:
knockback + shock trooper + resounding blow (+ improved critical (falchion) and combat brute).
Charge, knock him back; if you score a critical hit he has to pass his will save or he can take no actions during his turn ( he's cowering). If this happens...well, he's probably been pushed back and he's ready for another charge. If you have combat brute, that's a whole lot of damage... :D.

I've read the Elusive Target feat, and i cannot see where it helps you avoid the backlash of the -AC in power attack on the following round.
Can you explain more in details this last part?
Thanks.

Elusive Target's Negate Power Attack ability can keep you from getting smoked by a big power attack from your opponent while your AC is low. Karmic Strike works wonders in here too since you're likely to get slugged by anything still alive when you do this.

Well, if you have combat reflexes, and use karmic strike you'll be making 4/5 AoO / round at higher levels. That's more attacks than you would do with a full attack. How is that the feat is not enabled all the time? Anyone who hits you is hit in return. In a specialized build, this feat is quite good. Sure, there are better feats you can take, but I'd not say DO is a "waste" in a proper build. Sure, you rely on AoO to deal damage, but can an opponent avoid an AoO coming from KS in melee? Generally, no.(boldface mine)

Yes. With reach.

And I'm mearly claiming that there are plenty of other feats which would dovetail with Karmic Strike better than DO, if at the very least because you've invested a lot of feats to get Karmic Strike et al already.

BTW, how does one resolve the Karmic Strike vs. Karmic Strike conundrum?

(boldface mine)

Yes. With reach.

And I'm mearly claiming that there are plenty of other feats which would dovetail with Karmic Strike better than DO, if at the very least because you've invested a lot of feats to get Karmic Strike et al already.

BTW, how does one resolve the Karmic Strike vs. Karmic Strike conundrum?

Yes, with reach. And what's stopping you, at higher levels, from having reach as well? Reach weapons are not that uncommon, the ol' good spiked chain is always an option, polymorph, enlarge person and so on are all viable options.
And Karmic Strike requires 3 feats: Combat Expertise, Dodge, Karmic Strike. What do you mean by "so many feats"? if you're using a build that revolves around feats, you probably have some bonus feats...
As for the KS vs KS: they keep hitting each other until one of them runs out of AoO for the round or just sunders his opponent's weapon.

To Largegnome:

This very thread has already shown a number of other powerful feat combos not involving Karmic Strike. Imagine if you could master another such trick?

The drawback to the combat tactics feats is that they require a lot of feat prerequisites. But each one is very powerful--I don't know why so many people miss this when they :tantrum: about how much high level fighters suck.

BTW, how does one resolve the Karmic Strike vs. Karmic Strike conundrum?

This is covered in the "rules of the game: Attacks of Opportunity" column.

To summarize, say attacker A gets 2 AoOs per round, and B gets 2.
A hits B, provoking a KS B (B AoO #1).
B AoOs A, provoking an AoO from A (A AoO #1, remember that no damage has been done yet).
A AoOs B, provoking an AoO from B (B AoO #2).
B makes an AoO trip attempt against A (which provokes A AoO #2).
A AoOs B, and hits, but B is out of AoOs.

Now, remember that an AoO always resolves before the action provoking it.

So, first we roll A's second AoO against B, which damages, but does not kill.
Then we resolve B's second AoO (the trip) against A.
The trip is successful, and B immediately gets another attack on A, dealing damage (B has Improved trip).
Then we would resolve A's AoO (the one provoking the trip), but because of the -4 to hit from being prone he misses (but that miss still counted as a hit for Karmic strike).
Then we roll damage on B's first AoO, which kills A.
A does not resolve his first attack because he is dead.

This is covered in the "rules of the game: Attacks of Opportunity" column.

To summarize, say attacker A gets 2 AoOs per round, and B gets 2.
A hits B, provoking a KS B (B AoO #1).
B AoOs A, provoking an AoO from A (A AoO #1, remember that no damage has been done yet).
A AoOs B, provoking an AoO from B (B AoO #2).
B makes an AoO trip attempt against A (which provokes A AoO #2).
A AoOs B, and hits, but B is out of AoOs.

Now, remember that an AoO always resolves before the action provoking it.

So, first we roll A's second AoO against B, which damages, but does not kill.
Then we resolve B's second AoO (the trip) against A.
The trip is successful, and B immediately gets another attack on A, dealing damage (B has Improved trip).
Then we would resolve A's AoO (the one provoking the trip), but because of the -4 to hit from being prone he misses (but that miss still counted as a hit for Karmic strike).
Then we roll damage on B's first AoO, which kills A.
A does not resolve his first attack because he is dead.

Catharz, are you sure KS hadn't been clarified? IIRC KS was an exception to the normal rule, and damage was resolved at the same time...If it worked the way you say, a successful disarm or sunder on a karmic strike AoO would be enough to stop any attack...
Search is down, and I don't have very much time these days. If anyone knows better please provide a link.
Thanks in advance :)

Catharz, are you sure KS hadn't been clarified? IIRC KS was an exception to the normal rule, and damage was resolved at the same time...If it worked the way you say, a successful disarm or sunder on a karmic strike AoO would be enough to stop any attack...
Search is down, and I don't have very much time these days. If anyone knows better please provide a link.
Thanks in advance :)

I just looked up KS again in Complete Warrior. It doesn't say anything about special AoO rules, and there isn't any errata out on CW (and probably won't ever be).

I think I found what I was referring to. The original printing of the feat (OA) stated "you and your opponent deal damage simultaneously". This part, however, seems to have been omitted in the CW version. Well, if it works this way, I'm going to add KS + Combat reflexes + Improved Disarm/Sunder...
This may be the closest official option to simulate a Parry within 3.5 official rules. I'm still skeptical (I think while RAW this works, it was not intended, and a FAQ could well invalidate this) but still...

I think I found what I was referring to. The original printing of the feat (OA) stated "you and your opponent deal damage simultaneously". This part, however, seems to have been omitted in the CW version. Well, if it works this way, I'm going to add KS + Combat reflexes + Improved Disarm/Sunder...
This may be the closest official option to simulate a Parry within 3.5 official rules. I'm still skeptical (I think while RAW this works, it was not intended, and a FAQ could well invalidate this) but still...

Heh. Ya.

Thats why I really like Karmic strike+Great throw, Karmic strike+Trip, Karmic strike+Stunning fist, Karmic strike+Freezing the lifeblood...

In fact, you can get quite the coup de grace engine going with Deathblow, KS, and FtLB.

I forget if there's a feat that duplicates the Thief Acrobats Kip Up ability to stand as a free action that doesn't provoke an AOO, but basically that ability makes the Dive For Cover feat priceless. You can make any reflex save twice and fall prone (basically ranged attacks get a -2 against you as well), with no real drawback.

Also, Elusive Target+Defensive Throw+Opprotunist class feature of the rogue is nice. You're being flanked (fighting total defense), attacker A tries to hit you, striking attacker B instead (Diverting Defense) because of Defensive throw you get to trip (and thus attack if successful because of Improved Trip) attacker A, if attacker A DID successfully hit attacker B, you can too (Opprotunist), trip him too. Thus Jackie Chan is born!

I forget if there's a feat that duplicates the Thief Acrobats Kip Up ability to stand as a free action that doesn't provoke an AOO, but basically that ability makes the Dive For Cover feat priceless. You can make any reflex save twice and fall prone (basically ranged attacks get a -2 against you as well), with no real drawback.

Its in Complete warrior (among other things). Requires Lightning reflexes (more synergy!).

Keep in mind that a monk's unarmed attacks are treated as natural weapons.

A creature with a natural weapon can use it as a secondary attack, getting one extra swing in addition to an iterative armed attack sequence.

Thus, it seems that a monk could, indeed, use his unarmed strike as a secondary weapon.

Am I reading this right? On the damage from a leap attack for a 2-handed weapon, do you triple the amount of BAB you give up, or the amount of extra damage that you do from the power attack?

For example, let's say you do a leap attack with a greatsword and give up 6 points of BAB. do you

a) do (6x2) 12 damage for the power attack, plus (12x3) 36 damage from the leap attack for a total of 48 points of damage

or

b) do (6x3) 18 points of damage for leap attacking with a 2-handed weapon

I think it is B, but the wording is weird....

Keep in mind that a monk's unarmed attacks are treated as natural weapons.

A creature with a natural weapon can use it as a secondary attack, getting one extra swing in addition to an iterative armed attack sequence.

Thus, it seems that a monk could, indeed, use his unarmed strike as a secondary weapon.

A monk's unarmed attacks are not natural weapons. This is detailed in the FAQ, but as an example, natural weapons cannot be used in a Flurry.

A monk's natural weapons can be enhanced as natural attacks, but that is it.

If they were natural attacks, a monk would forever have an attack routine of BAB-2/BAB-2 or BAB/BAB/BAB with flurry/greater flurry.
Or maybe they would be able to make a primary "fist" attack followed by two Flurry "fists" and a secondary "fist," two secondary "elbows," two secondary "knees," and two secondary "feet."

Thank goodness they aren't!

Am I reading this right? On the damage from a leap attack for a 2-handed weapon, do you triple the amount of BAB you give up, or the amount of extra damage that you do from the power attack?

For example, let's say you do a leap attack with a greatsword and give up 6 points of BAB. do you

a) do (6x2) 12 damage for the power attack, plus (12x3) 36 damage from the leap attack for a total of 48 points of damage

or

b) do (6x3) 18 points of damage for leap attacking with a 2-handed weapon

I think it is B, but the wording is weird....

BY RAW I believe it would be:

(6*2) = 12 this would be the amount you triple, so 12+12+12=36. What you are doing in (a) violates the whole triple is really double twice D & D mechanic.

I would bet money that (b) is how the feat designers intended the feat to operate, but a literal reading of the rules does nothing to support this.

Basically, add leap attack to any charging feat you might have (if orcish blood, headlong rush for sure).

BTW - what is resounding blow again? It sounds vaguely familar but I don't recall.

Here's a great combo for Large/Powerful Build barbarians:

Shock Trooper (CW) + Knockback (RoS) + Rampaging Bull Rush (RoS)
Optionals: Leap Attack (CAdv), Karmic Strike (CW), Combat Reflexes (PHB)

I think of this as the better way of tripping, since if you manage to knockback your opponent at least 5 feet (with a bonus on the bull rush check equal to 2x BAB - 4), the opponent is automatically prone, which has the benefit of helping you set up another charge. Leap Attack is there for extra damage. Combat Reflexes and Karmic Strike are there for the ability to keep on doing this should opponents decide to close in on you to break your charge.

Also, Elusive Target+Defensive Throw+Opprotunist class feature of the rogue is nice. You're being flanked (fighting total defense), attacker A tries to hit you, striking attacker B instead (Diverting Defense) because of Defensive throw you get to trip (and thus attack if successful because of Improved Trip) attacker A, if attacker A DID successfully hit attacker B, you can too (Opprotunist), trip him too. Thus Jackie Chan is born!That is freakin AWESOME. Gonna have to use that (if I ever get to play D&D again... lol)

Easy chart to help you remember.

1H Power Attack 1 point = 1 damage
1H Leaping Power Attack 1 point = 2 damage
2H Power Attack 1 point = 2 damage
2H Leaping Power Attack 1 point = 3 damage

I forget who told me that, but that's what that is.

Karmic Strike seems to be quite a many trick pony. Not many combos listed don't involve it. Damn my 8 DEX.

Shock Trooper(CW) and Leap Attack (CAdv)
Massive damage on a charge.

... that's not so much massive damage as damage with no penalty to attack (since the penalty goes to AC instead).

For massive damage try:

Combat Brute: Momentum Swing (CW) + Leap Attack
With a 2H weapon, -1 to hit = +5 damage.

Easy chart to help you remember.

1H Power Attack 1 point = 1 damage
1H Leaping Power Attack 1 point = 2 damage
2H Power Attack 1 point = 2 damage
2H Leaping Power Attack 1 point = 3 damage

Momentum Swing is x1.5 1H and x3 2H. Combined 3x3=5, so -1 = +5. But I could be wrong, I am a newb.


Also see:
With a Great Axe and throwing axes:

Charge
Quick Draw - Whip out Throwing Axe
Hurling Throw (Miniatures) - As part of a charge, you can throw a weapon then make your melee attack at the end of the charge.
Brutal Throw - Uses Str modifier instead of Dex
Power Attack - two times the melee damage for great axe
Leap Attack - three times the damage in a charge for great axe

And hopefully Cleave into your next victim.
Brutal Throw is either from Miniatures or CAdv, was told different and I don't have them to check. Also, his PA and LA lines are kinda redundant as LA replaces PA bonus rather than stacking.

He does this covering 20' (charging 10' then jumping 10'), but it may be possible to just Leap and throw while in the air. Unsure of the rules on this, but it seems possible. Leap Attack is just a charge that's off the ground after all. Also, Combat Brute could still be added on.


Futhermore, due to the wording - am I correct in thinking that you cannot combine Shock Trooper: Heedless Charge with this to apply attack roll to AC? Shock Trooper says "if you make a charge that ends in an attack that uses PA.." while Combat Brute says "if you successfully charge an opponent, and then on the following round use PA..." Sounds as though these won't work together. Would have been nice tho.

Hmmm. As I think about that wording, I'm getting the feeling Leap Attack and Combat Brute won't stack. Damn my n3wbness. Oh well, Akharu's idea is still a good one that I thought should get posted.

Don't forget to add anvil of thunder to your double hit feat builds you get to daze anyone you hit with both weapons.

elusive target and defensive throw work well together

Leap Attack and Momentum Swing don't work on the same attack.

It works just like Heedless Charge and Momentum Swing. They work on different attacks -- the first round, and the second round.

Leap Attack and Momentum Swing don't work on the same attack.

It works just like Heedless Charge and Momentum Swing. They work on different attacks -- the first round, and the second round.

Well, if the second round you can charge again...

Well, if the second round you can charge again...

With another leap... and somehow keeping the same momentum from your first one?

With another leap... and somehow keeping the same momentum from your first one?

Well, the description of momentum swing doesn't say you have to attack the same opponent you charged in the 1st round; So you could charge one opponent during the first round, and then charge another opponent the 2nd round; momentum swing should apply, and you can use heedless charge and Leap attack again.

As far as the RAW go, here's the deal:

1) Momentum Swing is not target specific in that you don't need to make the second round's Power Attack on the target you charged on the first round. This means you can charge an opponent on the first round, and charge another on the second round, enjoying the perks of Momentum Swing on the second target. Basically, you use the momentum of a charge in one round to empower your attacks on the second round with the momentum from your charge.

2) Momentum Swing's damage bonus does not affect the Power Attack damage bonus. As it is written, you get an additional damage bonus. This means you get both the PA damage (1x penalty taken for a one-handed weapon, or 2x penalty taken for a two-handed weapon) and the Momentum Swing Damage (1.5x penalty taken for a one-handed weapon, or 3x penalty taken for a two-handed weapon). I believe it to be a fair trade, considering you have to limit your first round to charging, and you need to take a -5 or greater penalty on your attack rolls on the second round to enjoy the bonus. Using Momentum Swing is terrain-dependent unless you have class abilities that allow you to charge through any terrain, which in turn reduces its effectiveness. As a rule of thumb, every time you make a successful Momentum Swing, you deal extra damage equal to 2.5x the penalty taken on attack rolls with a one-handed weapon, and 5x the penalty taken on attack rolls with a two-handed weapon.

3) Since the Momentum Swing isn't limited to the target you charged on the first round, it's perfectly combinable with Heedless Charge. This tactic, albeit potentially highly destructive, does present a large number of disadvantages. If you didn't eliminate the foe you charged on the first round, odds are he'll be within melee range when it's time for you to start your Heedless Charging Momentum Swing. This means your opponent gets a free AoO, and it'll most likely connect, since the point of this maneuver is to take part (if not all) of your attack penalty as an AC penalty instead. Since you're reducing your AC, this makes you even more vulnerable to critical hits (since confirmation rolls will be a joke). Suffice it to say that this maneuver is hard to setup properly on accidented terrain (especially if the terrain has obstacles) on a basis that you need to charge every round. Unless you invest into methods to keep your enemies at bay whenever you charge, performing this maneuver means you'll be taking damage as well, which is alone to justify the worth of this maneuver.

4) Although Leap Attack has been a serious issue for determining the exact damage bonus, the RAW indicate that it does not overlap the normal rules for Power Attack damage calculation. If you need a basis for comparison for this, just look at the Frenzied Berserker's Improved Power Attack and Supreme Power Attack. They specifically list that those abilities replace the normal bonuses from Power Attack. Leap Attack adds, but it doesn't replace.

5) The rules on stacking multiplicity do not apply when using Leap Attack with a two-handed weapon, since Leap Attack and Power Attack are not affecting the same value. As it is written, Power Attack is dependent on the attack roll penalty you take, whereas Leap Attack is dependent on the bonus damage you get from Power Attack. Multiplicity rules would apply if using a two-handed weapon in a Power Attack textually doubled the damage bonus from using a Power Attack. As it is, rules for using a two-handed weapon in Power Attack replace those for using it with a one-handed weapon. This makes it entirely stackable with multiplying effects that affect the damage bonus instead of the attack roll penalty.

6) The main issue with Leap Attack is with two-handed weapons, since one-handed weapon rulings would apply even if multiplicity rules applied and Leap Attack overlapped instead of adding. As it is, using a Leap Attack with a two-handed weapon grants you a 6-to-1 ratio for bonus damage to penalty taken. Even if the creators meant it to be different, this is what we get until errata is published. Even if there's no errata to contradict the current rulings, it's a perfectly justifiable gain, since not only do you have to charge to perform a Leap Attack, but you need to succeed at a Jump check (which is seldom an easy decision for characters in heavy armor, due to armor check penalties and reduced movement), and unless you're packing magic that allows you to make full attacks on a charge, you're limited to one attack per round. Not to mention that you're still taking an AC penalty for charging, as well as an attack roll penalty to get any sort of damage bonus. If you miss, you wind up with nothing.

Naturally, there are many interesting ways to overcome the drawbacks of using these maneuvers synergistically, especially for Powerfully Built or Large(r) characters. Knockback is a great way to keep the opponent you charged away from you, and Rampaging Bull Rush makes sur he is unable to attack you in melee on his turn. Reach weapons are also a solution, but unless you extend your reach to 15 feet, there's nothing preventing the opponent you charged from taking a 5-foot step and get you within his melee range.

Marcus Majarra, could you please give us a full combat example of the total damage? From what you said, it seems that not only do these abilities work together, but they do so to a far greater extent than I imagined.

Also what do you mean by "you have to limit your first round to charging?" Since a charge involves a melee attack at the end, you're hardly limiting anything. If you're using Mithral FP, you only have an armor check of -4. Considering that Jump and STR are both class abilities for a fighter, a DC 20 Jump check is hardly out of the range of a Dwarven fighter of the level necessary to attain all these feats.

The example below includes the following:
Brutal Throw (CAdv) - STR instead of DEX for throwing
Hurling Throw (Miniatures) - as part of a charge, you can throw a weapon then make your melee attack at the end of the charge


Here's a scenario that would be demonstating these abilites.

Leap Attack Opponent A (Jump at him, DC = 10 if running start, otherwise 20)
Quick Draw Throwing Axe
Hurling Throw
Quick Draw Greataxe
Apply Shock Trooper, Leap Attack, and Knockback to Opponent A

*NEXT ROUND*

Leap Attack at Opponent B (DC 20 for no running start)
Quick Draw Throwing Axe
Hurling Throw
Quick Draw Greataxe
Apply Shock Trooper, Combat Brute, and Leap Attack to Opponent B

A few things:

1) Keep in mind that the mithral full plate reduces your speed to 20 ft. That's a -6 penalty on Jump checks right there. Combined with your ACP, that's -10. Still, you gotta keep in mind that AC will be nigh-useless if you plan on using the perks of Heedless Charge. So forget the medium/heavy armor.

2) Charging is limited by a number of things. For one, you need to have an unobstructed line towards the closest square you can strike your target from. If any allies or enemies are even slightly in the way, you can't charge at all. If you can't charge at all, Leap Attack, Shock Trooper, and Combat Brute lose a lot of their effectiveness. If the terrain reduces movement for any reason, you can't charge over it. Luckily, Leap Attack allows you to charge over such obstacles, but you still need to make your Jump checks. If the terrain reduces movement, you need to start your Jump from your own square, effectively doubling your Jump DCs (unless you happen to be a Goliath). Suffice it to say that such precise movement really screws you up when the terrain's not right. Goliaths are probably the best suited for these maneuvers, since they can make Jump checks as if they had a running start.

If you want to mix in Hurling Throw in there, you might as well use a one-handed weapon you can throw, like a Trident, since you wouldn't be benefiting from your Momentum Swing (since nothing specifically forbids you from enjoying the perks of this ability with a thrown weapon, as long as you make an attack with Power Attack that round). In fact, you might want to fight with only Tridents.

Anyway, let's make a listing of the feats we want to use, ok?

Power Attack
Leap Attack
Improved Bull Rush
Shock Trooper
Knockback
Combat Brute
Hurling Charge

We'll assume you'll be shifting your entire attack penalty to AC with Heedless Charge, for maximum damage at no loss of accuracy. I would forget about Hurling Charge on the first round, since it won't get any perks from this.

ROUND 1)
• Leap Attack with Heedless Charge and a trident (used in two-hands).
• Your bonus on the attack roll is +2 (perk from charging)
• Your penalty to AC is equal to your BAB+2 (flaw from charging and Heedless Charge)
• Your damage bonus is equal to your BAB×6 (perks from Power Attack and Leap Attack)
• Knockback the opponent, with a bonus of your BAB×2+4 on the opposed Strength check (perks from Power Attack, Knockback, and Improved Bull Rush)
• You can possibly get some free trips if you knockback your opponent into another opponent, but you should keep note of the distance you bull rushed your opponent with the Knockback if you plan on attacking him on the next turn again.

ROUND 2) (this also includes any subsequent rounds during which you keep charging against the same target)
• Leap Attack with Heedless Charge and Hurling Charge
• Your ranged and melee attacks gains a bonus on the roll equal to the distance you bull rushed your opponent the previous round / 5 + 2 (perks from Advancing Blows and charging)
• Your penalty to AC is equal to your BAB+2 (flaws from charging and Heedless Charge)
• Your damage bonus on the ranged attack is equal to your BAB×1.5 plus the distance you bull rushed your opponent the previous round / 5 (perks from Advancing Blows and Momentum Swing). Draw another Trident
• Your damage bonus on the melee attack is equal to your BAB×9 plus the distance you bull rushed your opponent the previous round / 5 (perks from Power Attack, Leap Attack, Advancing Blows, and Momentum Swing)
• Knockback the opponent, with a bonus of your BAB×2+4 on the opposed Strength check (perks from Power Attack, Knockback, and Improved Bull Rush)
• Rinse and repeat.

If you don't charge the same opponent on subsequent rounds, all you lose in this are the perks from Advancing Blows. Otherwise, everything remains the same.

These tactics are especially deadly in the hands of a Frenzied Berserker with Improved Power Attack or Supreme Power Attack.

The former's damage bonus becomes BAB×9 instead of BAB×6 when not benefitting from Momentum Swing, and BAB×12 instead of BAB×9 when benefitting from Momentum Swing. Having Supreme Power Attack ups those figures to BAB×12 and BAB×15 respectively. Suffice it to say that even the dreaded Tarrasque falls in two-three rounds against a 10th-level FB with these feats and Close-Quarters Fighting. I mean, assuming the character has a BAB of 20, that's 240 extra damage when connecting that Leap Attack. Close-Quarters Fighting is there to prevent the Tarrasque from Improved Grabbing you in the middle of your charge while allowing you to deal 80 points of Supreme Power Attack damage to it (which, to your pleasure grants you a +80 bonus on the opposed grapple check).

If you add a Valorous weapon to the mix, the Tarrasque falls unconscious on the second round for certain, since your first-round AoO would be dealing 160 extra damage, whereas your normal attack would be dealing 480 extra points of damage. On the second round, these figures up to 280 and 600 extra damage respectively.

Can you say ouch? It's not Hulking Hurler crazyness, but it's still an insta-kill for 99% of creatures.

...damn.

Even w/o FB that is a TON of damage, regardless of what you roll. Kinda makes doing 1d12 instead of 1d8 kinda... well, trivial. Well, at the cost of a feat you could always throw your Goliath Greathammer, which gives you x4 crit instead of x2. I think the Teleporting enchantment from XPH might get it back to you to be able to attack with it again. No idea really, haven't read the rule just heard of the enchantment.


Man. I was thinking about this from a mid-level standpoint. This is pretty nutty damage. I'm quite dumbfounded by this.

Huh. Well anyways I couldn't do this. I'd have to devote almost all of my feats towards charging, which I see the limits to now. Plus, if my DM sees the kinda damage I can do as a tank oriented character - I think he'll start roughing the terrain up.

Jeez. Way to go MM, you turned a cool PA idea into an uberERcharger - an impossible dream. :)

Just goes to show why the Fighter is a viable high level choice.

I can't reiterate this enough, given the trillions of poorly imagined anti-Fighter posts.

Except that it's completely negated by a single feat -- Elusive Target. You're down to your base weapon and 1.5x your strength at that point. And there are other weaknesses -- terrain dependancy, complete loss of AC, assumption the opponent can be knocked back (tarrasque? Come on...), the missing Quick Draw feat that's needed (minor), etc.

Just goes to show why the Fighter is a viable high level choice.

I can't reiterate this enough, given the trillions of poorly imagined anti-Fighter posts.

The more powerful build was using Frenzied Berserker. And you could still do the overall better by multiclassing.

The more powerful build was using Frenzied Berserker. And you could still do the overall better by multiclassing.

Oh COME ON!

1st of all, if you're making a new character and will be playing in a new group, you are a fool to expect Frenzied Berserker to fly. Frenzied Berserker is for this board only. If you're playing one right now, GREAT! But don't think that most PCs are allowed this. That's bull (IMO, of course, as I have seen no survey data...but it's a well informed O)

2ndly, while the other "builds" mentioned here are not fully developed, what is clear is that a lot of feats are needed to make them work. Don't forget prerequisites. If you're telling me your character doesn't need more than the 7 feats entitled him/her by level 18, then I'll tell you that your characters sucks until level 18. Who plays level 18 characters right off the bat? Furthermore, most of these combos require or are best utilized with > 7 feats.

And you could still do the overall better by multiclassing.

Frickin prove it, gob bamn it. (Catharz, I like some of your other posts; the reader is here informed I'm extrapolating to the more generic boarder guilty of Fighter-Whine)










You can't can you--it's an intractable proof!

Feats are comparable to most PrC abilities. Most boarders don't appreciate them because they lack imagination, I maintain.

The charge build is great psionic warriors too, They get psionic lions charge, which allows a full attack on a charge and a heathy damage bonus, access to deep crystal weapons that give +2d6 damage, the disolving weapon which can add up to 10d6 acid damage to an attack, added with thier huge number of feats (second only to fighters), They make great chargers. Demision slide(move action) above opppenent and fall 10ft charging with psionic lions charge (swift action) and full attack on the way down. I love my cervanties soul caliber attack!

feats like greater powerful charge and greater psionic weapon can add as much as +8d6 to a charge attack. Not as effective as power attack builds but less prone to be stopped by elusive target.

Gruffmug

I've mentioned this combo in another thread. I'd link to it, but I'm unbelievably lazy.

High Sword Low Axe (CW) + Double Hit (MH)
Every time you make an AoO, you get a free off-hand attack. If both attacks hit, you get a free trip attempt. If your trip succeeds, you get a free attack against your (now prone) foe. Congrats, you've just turned each AoO into (potentially) 4.

Throw in Karmic Strike and you can do that every time some fool hits you in melee.

.



Frickin prove it, gob bamn it. (Catharz, I like some of your other posts; the reader is here informed I'm extrapolating to the more generic boarder guilty of Fighter-Whine)










You can't can you--it's an intractable proof!


That's not quite correct. Actually, anyone who can crunch some numbers can prove that a multiclassed fighter is better than a single classed one. Bonus Feats are the only class feature fighters get, so just find any PrC or core class that offers bonus feats + something else, and you're set. For example, for a TWF'er or an archer Ranger 2/ Ftr 18 would be strictly better than Ftr 20; Besides, fighters tend to have crappy will and reflexes saves, so anything that improves those makes the fighter "better" (see the aforementioned build, for example). Or just find some class ability that gives a better numerical advantage than an existing feat you would have taken anyway. With the moltitude of PrC out there, stating "you can't prove a single classed fighter is worse than a multiclassed one" is, simply, not true.
Just to clarify, I think high level fighters can be interesting if you have a fair number of options (read: supplements) at your disposal. But claiming that I couldn't do better than ftr 20 with any multiclassed fighter would be ridiculous...

I've mentioned this combo in another thread. I'd link to it, but I'm unbelievably lazy.

High Sword Low Axe (CW) + Double Hit (MH)
Every time you make an AoO, you get a free off-hand attack. If both attacks hit, you get a free trip attempt. If your trip succeeds, you get a free attack against your (now prone) foe. Congrats, you've just turned each AoO into (potentially) 4.

Throw in Karmic Strike and you can do that every time some fool hits you in melee.You also need to throw in Improved Trip :D Another option for single-weapon fighters: Instead of High Sword Low Axe & Double Hit, use Knockdown from Sword & Fist (if you're allowed 3.0 material). Anytime you deal 10 or more damage (not hard) you get a free trip attack, and it requires improved trip so if you trip them you get the attack of opportunity for that as well. So Karmic Strike + Knockdown (3.0) + Improved Trip = potential 2 attacks and enemy prone every attack of opportunity for single weapon fighters.

Someone made good use of the Opportunist rogue special ability, anyone think of another class feature that could enhance existing feat combos? (Just one class feature, otherwise we loose the point of the thread.)

I'm thinking the Sweeping Strike ability of the Warmind combines wonderfully with most of the combos that generate free attacks, it allows the extra attacks to spread onto other people.

I've updated the main post with more of the stuff I've seen posted, I have to say I'm impressed :D . Maybe even more impressive is that after 3 pages the thread hasn't devolved into an argument over the RAW (I thought Karmic Strike might kick that off :P ).
Anyway, I've tried to categorise the combos found so far, can anyone think of any more? Or think of anything to go into a Magic category?
I also have a couple more that have been posted that I haven't added yet, I'm still trying generalise them.

All this makes me tempted to play a 1/2 Giant Fighter X/Warmind 5 next time I make a character. Enough of my drivel, I'll post again when I think of something else interesting.

Lord Kiwi,

:bump: just to have a link to this excellent resource thread

nice job LordKiwi :clap:


:D

...
Just to clarify, I think high level fighters can be interesting if you have a fair number of options (read: supplements) at your disposal. But claiming that I couldn't do better than ftr 20 with any multiclassed fighter would be ridiculous...

Totally agree. My idea of a high level fighter = Levels 12, 14, 16, & even 18 Fighter with smatterings of PrCs or Classes. Mmmkay, back to topic.

Energy Subtitution/Affinity and Bloddline of fire.

Cast all elemental Spells with +2 Caster level.

Energy Subtitution/Affinity and Bloddline of fire.

Cast all elemental Spells with +2 Caster level.
Where is Energy Affinity and Bloodline of Fire from?

Lord Kiwi,

Knockdown (3.0) + Improved Trip

Knockdown was clarified not to create an attack from Improved Trip in, I believe, the Sword and Fist FAQ.

(Qaetar)

Think about this...
Human Psiwarrior
1 Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Dodge
2 Improved Bullrush
3 Mobility
5 Combat Reflexes
6 Leap Attack
8 Shock Trooper
9 Hold the Line
11 Combat Expertise
12 Karmic Strike
14 Combat Brute
15 Elusive Target
17 Psionic Meditation
18 Psionic Weapon
20 Deep Impact


Basically... use various DR creating powers, wear adamantine fullplate w/fort heavy. Only very specefically built characters (with Mettle for example) can stop that. Well blasters, but throw in at least Enery Ray and you're good.

Just a question about the TWF / unarmed strike combo : what would the attack modifiers be? Is it more because it's a two handed weapon or is it just -2.

Example : I'm a fighter with a greataxe. My BaB is 10/5. If I make a full attack with my greataxe and then kick what would my attack bonus be :
Axe : 8/3 kick : 8 ?? :confused:

Just a question about the TWF / unarmed strike combo : what would the attack modifiers be? Is it more because it's a two handed weapon or is it just -2.

Example : I'm a fighter with a greataxe. My BaB is 10/5. If I make a full attack with my greataxe and then kick what would my attack bonus be :
Axe : 8/3 kick : 8 ?? :confused:
Seems about right. It says if your off hand weapon is light (which unarmed attacks are) then you only get a -2 penalty. The penalty is the same irespective of how heavy your main attack is.

Lord Kiwi,

Thank you Sir Kiwi, then I'm going to do some serious head choppin' and ass kickin'

Where is Energy Affinity and Bloodline of Fire from?

Lord Kiwi,

Energy Affinity does the same like Energy substitution, was just renamed. Don't know in which book exactly.
Bloodline of fire is from FRCS but was reprinted and reruled in PGtF.

Where is Energy Affinity and Bloodline of Fire from?Energy Substitution and Energy Admixture are in Complete Arcane, Energy Admixture requires Energy Substitution so may be worth looking into if you're interested in Energy Substitution.

New one for Rogues/IB's:

Quick Reconnoiter and Deft Strike

Spot and Listen checks as free actions, make a spot check to ignore opponent's armor and natural armor AC bonus. With Improved Feint or the IB's uncanny feint for good measure.

I was thinking about this the other day, but I don't think it will work. It just seems too...convenient.

I've mentioned our new campaign several times recently...and now I'm mentioning it again!

My friend is playing an Elf Rogue2/Wizard3 with 16,16,15,15,14,14 stats. I think he would thoroughly enjoy playing a Trip/AoO/TWF specialist (spiked chain if it works to an advantage). Starting with what we have, what kind of build works out.

Magic items will be plentiful. I'm playing an Arc/Div caster, so I can buff him (possibly divine persistant). We can't use any Psionics (but could use non-psionic feats from the book), paragons, or racial substitutions.

The biggest thing is--it needs to be fun to play pretty soon. We will level fairly quick, but I wouldn't want him to have to wait until 10th level to have any fun.



Claggart

Oh yeah for the ubercharger FB if you have shock trooper and headlong rush (and maybe power lunge)throw in karmic strike and you can turn your low AC to an advantage.

I was thinking about this the other day, but I don't think it will work. It just seems too...convenient.

Well I'll base my thoughts on functionality on RAW, not intuition:)

There is the question of whether or not the standard action is for the feat itself, or for the requisite spot check. More fodder for the FAQ methinks.

Yeah, it *does* look like by the RAW that it does work that way. Jeez.

And trust me, I'd love for it to work, but it might take some convincing for my DM. I mean, I play a Ninja. So if I have Quick Reconnoiter and Deft Opportunist, and I use Ghost Step to go invisible, I am making an attack against a target with no dexterity bonus OR armor bonus OR natural armor bonus. Is that insane?

I don't see how Quick Reconnoiter helps Deft Strike in any way. Deft Strike explicitly states that you need to take a standard action and make a Spot check. Quick Reconnoiter doesn't let you ignore the standard action requirement, last I checked.

Well, this is where the confusion comes in. In the Deft Opportunist feat, it says you can take a standard action to ignore an opponent's armor and natural armor bonuses to AC. However, the Quick Reconnoiter feat says you may take one spot and listen check each round as a free action.

So. Does the Deft Opportunist feat mean you MUST take a standard action to ignore their armor and natural armor, or is it simply assuming the norm - that it normally takes a standard action to make a listen or spot check? Because the Quick Reconnoiter feat makes that a free action, does it make your Deft Opportunism a free action?

Logic says no - but who knows. RAW does not = logic many a time. ;)

My friend is playing an Elf Rogue2/Wizard3 with 16,16,15,15,14,14 stats. I think he would thoroughly enjoy playing a Trip/AoO/TWF specialist (spiked chain if it works to an advantage). Starting with what we have, what kind of build works out.

The biggest thing is--it needs to be fun to play pretty soon. We will level fairly quick, but I wouldn't want him to have to wait until 10th level to have any fun.
As a Rogue/Wizard you aren't really set up to benefit from anything in this thread, especialy if you want to be effective quickly.

The only hope you have with that character is to be allowed to take the fighter feat variants of both classes from Unareathed Arcana, otherwise you just don't have the feats. Then take a level of fighter and go into spellsword 3/eldritch knight 2+. Grab EWP:Spiked chain and then just pick a couple of AoO combos from the first page to get.

Those levels are much better suited to a Daggerspell Mage/Arcane Trickster type build.

Lord Kiwi,

Thanks for the response Lordkiwi.

I figured that was the case. He drew the Elf Rog2/Wiz3 out of hat and was excited to play it. He even turned down an offer to trade with another player. But now he's wanting to play character types that just don't fit with what he has. I've told him Arcane Trickster/Daggerspell Mage/Master Thrower/Spellsword etc... are his best options. I'm going to give up on looking for anything different for him and just tell him to make the most of what he has.

Thanks for the help.

Back to the topic....


Claggart

Yeah, it *does* look like by the RAW that it does work that way. Jeez.

And trust me, I'd love for it to work, but it might take some convincing for my DM. I mean, I play a Ninja. So if I have Quick Reconnoiter and Deft Opportunist, and I use Ghost Step to go invisible, I am making an attack against a target with no dexterity bonus OR armor bonus OR natural armor bonus. Is that insane?

Sorry didn't mean to bust your chops, though I've seen much worse justified by RAW. And yeah it is a little crazy, which is part of the reason why I posted it, to get some other's thoughts on the matter. My thought was go Invisible Blade; Free Spot Check=Armor and Natural Armor ignored, Free Bluff/Feint=dex bonus to AC gone...shankity shank shank.

Doh! I've been referring to Deft Strike as Deft Opportunist. :(

Damn.... just damn. There are so many nice combos in this thread, they even make me want to play a fighter or a psywarrior.

Here's a simple, but effective combo for Gishes:

Assuming all instances of Karmic Strike imply Combat Reflexes and a high Dex score:

• Karmic Strike + Arcane Strike
Optionals: Double Hit
Result: Putting those hit and damage bonuses to best use. A BAB +16 character with 18 Dex and two weapons can add up to 15d4 damage to his attacks per spell level of the slot sacrificed to fuel Arcane Strike. As with Double Hit, this is a good way to get a good compensation for getting hit through Karmic Strike. A great combo for sorceror gishes, and an effective way to allow two-weapon fighters to stand as equals to two-handed fighters. Works wonders for Warmages-gone-Rainbow Servants who can just compensate for a low BAB with Divine Power, and still get some healing in after battle.

• Shock Trooper + Knockback + Rampaging Bull Rush
Optionals: Combat Brute, Leap Attack, Karmic Strike
Result: This effectively allows the charger to effectively setup his Heedless Charges every round. Plus it's a good way for a strong and dumb character to "trip" his opponents. Opponents with Elusive Target get no protection against this, but characters who can stand up from prone as free actions can screw this up. Otherwise, it's a hit and bull rush to prone maneuver in a single attack. Really strong characters or characters with high BABs can make sure they have enough charging distance against any opponent they can rush far enough.

The Karmic Strike + Arcane Strike combo only works if you activate Arcane Strike at the end of your round, it's important to remember - Arcane Strike uses a free action, not an immediate action. However, since Arcane Strike ends on your next turn, this means you're essentially betting on being hit enough times to make it worthwhile - aside from a few situations, I don't think that's too great of an idea.

As much as I would like the Deft Strike + Quick Reconnoiter combo to work, I don't think it does by RAW. If you look at the description for the Spot skill, it describes using Spot in an active sense as requiring a Move Action. The Deft Strike description articulates that one must spend a Standard Action and make a Spot check - and so it is not talking about making a normal 'active' Spot check, which would call for a Move Action, but rather something more difficult and time intensive.

Unfortunate, as I love sneak attacking Invisible Blades...

Karmic Strike + Arcane Strike
Good thinking, anything that gives extra attacks to a Arcane Strike user is well worth it. I've added this one to the first post (although edited it to be briefer, otherwise the post would quickly become too long and unreadable).

Shock Trooper + Knockback + Rampaging Bull Rush
Sounds good but, without by books on me, I can't remember what Rampaging Bull Rush does so I can't see how effective the combo is. I've put it up anyway but could someone give me an idea of how the feat works?

Lord Kiwi,

The Karmic Strike + Arcane Strike combo only works if you activate Arcane Strike at the end of your round, it's important to remember - Arcane Strike uses a free action, not an immediate action. However, since Arcane Strike ends on your next turn, this means you're essentially betting on being hit enough times to make it worthwhile - aside from a few situations, I don't think that's too great of an idea.

This is not true. Arcane Strike lasts for one round, or until the beginning of your next turn, if you prefer. This means you activate it prior to making your full attack, and it applies to both your attack sequence and any AoOs you're entitled to before the beginning of your next turn. Thus, a high BAB two-weapon character can always attempt 7 attacks with Arcane Strike. Karmic Strike and Double Hit make it easier to get the extra 8.

Also, Rampaging Bull Rush allows a raging character to cause any opponent he bull rushes to be prone at the end of the bull rush, if he takes a -4 penalty on the opposed Strength check. Knockback and Shock Trooper give insane bonuses on the Strength check (2x BAB) at no loss of accuracy, making "tripping" far easier for the Rampaging Knockback Trooper than for your average tripper.

I might have missed it, but why has nobody mentioned Battle Jump (UE). Double damage on a charge.

I might have missed it, but why has nobody mentioned Battle Jump (UE). Double damage on a charge.
Feat COMBOs.

Battle Jump combines amazingly well with Leap Attack and anything that multiplies damage on a charge (i.e. Headlong Rush). Battle Jump itself is actually MORE useful in that it can allow you to charge in situations where charging would normally be impossible. This is exemplified in the now-famous Lancer build.

:bump:

Has this been added to the library yet?

Feat COMBOs.

Battle Jump combines amazingly well with Leap Attack and anything that multiplies damage on a charge (i.e. Headlong Rush). Battle Jump itself is actually MORE useful in that it can allow you to charge in situations where charging would normally be impossible. This is exemplified in the now-famous Lancer build.

Except that it's limited to the Taer race, since the publication of the Player's Guide to Faerun nerfed Regional Feats.

Except that it's limited to the Taer race, since the publication of the Player's Guide to Faerun nerfed Regional Feats.
Noted. However, unlike other regional feats, it has NO cultural connection to the taer, nor is it reflective of a unique taer tactic (anyone can turn a leap like that into an attack). Thus, I (and many other DMs) usually allow it to non-taer.

Furthermore, it is NOT necessary to exploit Leap Attack. It simply lowers the multiplier by 1 (and there's many ways to get that back up), and it restricts which kinds of jumps can be seen as a charge.

As much as I would like the Deft Strike + Quick Reconnoiter combo to work, I don't think it does by RAW. If you look at the description for the Spot skill, it describes using Spot in an active sense as requiring a Move Action. The Deft Strike description articulates that one must spend a Standard Action and make a Spot check - and so it is not talking about making a normal 'active' Spot check, which would call for a Move Action, but rather something more difficult and time intensive.

Unfortunate, as I love sneak attacking Invisible Blades...

Perhaps this is not by the RAW, but it is easily argued that an Deft Strike's effortful spot with Quick Reconnoiter is not the standard action that it would be normally. It would be a move action at most, if not a immediate or swift action. Thus logically you should be able to use them together in the same turn, along with IB feinting goodness. Logic does not equal the RAW, but will probably work in your game.

Why not Shock Trooper + Power Lunge + Karmic Strike?

Charge, foe gets an AoO. You deal insane damage twice, once with Karmic Strike and once with your normal attack.

Sure, Power Lunge is 3.0 (S&F), but it hasn't been updated, so, it's still legal.

:bump: to save

:D

"Hold the Line" and "Large and in Charge"
this would mess up there charge since the large and in charge knocks them back to the square they came from, which also would make it so they can't finish there charge attack

Damn, took some dredging to find this one. :)

Come on, there's gotta be some new ones out there now.

Eh, I just wanted to bump this for people that haven't seen it yet. Not to mention that it is pretty sweet.

This thread rocks.

I love the Karmic Strike stuff. Love it.

And by the way, I am a fan of deft opportunist...

+4 to attack can be power attacked,expertised away!!!

Heres a combo that can come in handy for bodyguard types:

Quickstaff + Combat Expertise + Allied Defense
You sacrifice 5 BAB and you and all adjecent allies gain +7AC. Smack Improved Combat Expertise into the mix, and the AC bonus can increase to +22AC to you and all adjecent allies!!!
(Quickstaff CW, Allied Defense Shining South)

Cheers.

Any good combos since the release of the Player's Handbook II?
I know there is, because individually, the feats in there are great.

I ask you all because you, as a whole, are far more clever than myself. :)

Well it's a bit obvious ... but Snow Tiger berserker + TWF tree + Blood-Spiked Charger equals a whole lotta damage on a charge.

HAhahhah!

Hug of death!

Combat Reflexes+Karmic Strike+Ribalds Gambit+Elusive Target+Improved Trip+Defensive Sweep.

Couple this with Knight 3 and it's just about impossible for someone to get away from you. Now when they fail to leave your threatened area each round because it's damn near impossible then, well, they're completely screwed.

Since you're going to have extremely high dex because you need extremely high dex you might as well be an elf and take Champion of Corellon 2.

Combat Reflexes+Karmic Strike+Ribalds Gambit+Elusive Target+Improved Trip+Defensive Sweep.

Couple this with Knight 3 and it's just about impossible for someone to get away from you. Now when they fail to leave your threatened area each round because it's damn near impossible then, well, they're completely screwed.

Since you're going to have extremely high dex because you need extremely high dex you might as well be an elf and take Champion of Corellon 2.And get ahold of a Sword of Graceful Strikes with the Fierce enhancement.

Where can such things be found?

And get ahold of a Sword of Graceful Strikes with the Fierce enhancement.

As long as I play, I still feel like a new player some times. :P
What book is the Sword of Graceful Strikes found in?
I've heard of the "Fierce" enchantment, but could you refresh my memory as to what it does?

And, unrelated to Xeraph's post, I thought someone would have some combos with all the great two-weapon-fighting feats now released in the Player's Handbook II!

And one more thing. I've been wracking my brain trying to find some way to two-weapon weild a pair of longswords. A Monk with Whirling Steel Strike can do it as a Flurry, but then I miss out on all the great TWF feats, which have Two Weapon Fighting as a prereq. - which is something that I couldn't take anyway (longswords aren't light, and the penalty for not weilding light is unacceptable). Now, I could use a Elven Thinblade, which works as a rapier and longsword, which lets me flurry and TWF with my mainhand, but not my off-hand. Any ideas?

And one more thing. I've been wracking my brain trying to find some way to two-weapon weild a pair of longswords. A Monk with Whirling Steel Strike can do it as a Flurry, but then I miss out on all the great TWF feats, which have Two Weapon Fighting as a prereq. - which is something that I couldn't take anyway (longswords aren't light, and the penalty for not weilding light is unacceptable). Now, I could use a Elven Thinblade, which works as a rapier and longsword, which lets me flurry and TWF with my mainhand, but not my off-hand. Any ideas?

The feat, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, lowers the penality for using a non-light weapon in your offhand by -2, effectively making it the same penality as a light weapon in your offhand. See Complete Adventurer.

I forget if there's a feat that duplicates the Thief Acrobats Kip Up ability to stand as a free action that doesn't provoke an AOO, but basically that ability makes the Dive For Cover feat priceless. You can make any reflex save twice and fall prone (basically ranged attacks get a -2 against you as well), with no real drawback.

Also, Elusive Target+Defensive Throw+Opprotunist class feature of the rogue is nice. You're being flanked (fighting total defense), attacker A tries to hit you, striking attacker B instead (Diverting Defense) because of Defensive throw you get to trip (and thus attack if successful because of Improved Trip) attacker A, if attacker A DID successfully hit attacker B, you can too (Opprotunist), trip him too. Thus Jackie Chan is born!


Throw in Combat Focus and Combat Defense from PHB2, reapply your dodge mod as an immediate action to attacker B who then misses and attacks attacker A's flat footed prone ac and you get to trip attacker B in addition to attacking him if he goes down. More Jackie Chan Awesomeness. That's right. Awesomeness. I'd go so far as to say it's even Chainsawsome.

And speaking of Dive for Cover, in PHB2 there's a feat called Combat Acrobat that allows you to make a balance check whenever something would cause you to become prone to keep standing. Dunno if that would be a legit combo but you could always play it off like "Oh yeah I did dive for cover, but then I rolled back into a standing position."

Sorry, Both Fierce and Sword of Graceful Strikes is found in Arms and Equipment Guide.

Cheerios.

• Karmic Strike + Arcane Strike
Optionals: Double Hit
Result: Putting those hit and damage bonuses to best use. A BAB +16 character with 18 Dex and two weapons can add up to 15d4 damage to his attacks per spell level of the slot sacrificed to fuel Arcane Strike. As with Double Hit, this is a good way to get a good compensation for getting hit through Karmic Strike. A great combo for sorceror gishes, and an effective way to allow two-weapon fighters to stand as equals to two-handed fighters. Works wonders for Warmages-gone-Rainbow Servants who can just compensate for a low BAB with Divine Power, and still get some healing in after battle.


For the record, Arcane Strike only affects one weapon per spell slot. So you'd have to spend two spell slots per turn, but otherwise, it's nice.

Of course, if you threw in Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting, you could turn around and dump the bonus from Arcane Strike into Power Attack.

Spring Attack + Acrobatic Strike + Skill mastery (Tumble) [rogue special ability] + Flick of the Wrist

+4 to your spring attack, and no chance to fail on the Tumble (seeing that you need at least 12 ranks in tumble for Acro strike, and if you're spring attacking you'll have at least +3 Dex mod), and then add sneak attack damage too. If a companion is flanking, then you don't need to use FotW and get a total of +6 to your attack. Schweet.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't double hit a standard action to perform, and thus not useable on an attack of opportunity?

two good ones from phb2 for Rogues:

Adaptable Flanker + Weapon Prof: Spiked Chain (prereq: BAB +1, Vexing Flanker, Combat Reflexes) = you flank any creature to by yourself, assuming they can be flanked and you can reach past them. You also get +4 to your attack thanks to Vexing Flanker.

edit: this might not work; there's some fuzzy logic to the definition of "flanking" - the SRD says that you need "a" creature to be opposite your attack and threatening the creature you are attacking (and you definitely are a creature), but the PHB defines flanking as "another" creature (and you definitely wouldn't qualify as that). The SRD also says you threaten any square you can attack into, so the problem now is that any large rogues following the 1st logic (SRD) get flanking on any smaller creature (which shouldn't be the case).

Neraph Charge + Two Weapon Pounce (prereq: Knowledge: Planes 5 ranks, Two Weapon Fighting, BAB +6) = every opponent you charge is flat-footed and you get 2 attacks against them (usable once per opponent per encounter).

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't double hit a standard action to perform, and thus not useable on an attack of opportunity?
Dual Strike (CAdv) is a standard action.

Double Hit (MinHB) allows one to use two weapons in an AoO.

Well, that's totally sweet.

Karmic Strike + Deft Opportunist + Improved Disarm

Enemy hits you. You disarm them, with a +8 bonus to the check (i.e. a very good chance to disarm). Robilar's Gambit doesn't work, though - Disarm is an opposed attack roll and Robilar's Gambit gives your opponent a +4 bonus to attack rolls.

Works best with a Spiked Chain - that way you can also disarm opponents as they approach you (moving through a threatened space), or disarm large (or huge/long) opponents as they strike you from 10ft. On top of that, you also get an extra +2 bonus on your Disarm attack, for a total of +14 (+4 Deft Opportunist, +4 Improved Disarm, +4 two-handed weapon, +2 spiked chain). Combine with the Disarming enchantment and... well...

Spring Attack, Improved Trip, Unbalancing Blow
Option A: Bounding Assault, Rapid Blitz
Option B: Combat Reflexes, Karmic Strike, Deft Opportunist
Option C: Improved Disarm

Spring Attack towards an opponent (preferably with a spiked chain). Use Improved Trip to knock it on its ass - Unbalancing Blow lets you use your Dex bonus instead of Str for this (useful if you want to make use of the other options). Hit it while it's down using the extra attack from Improved Trip. Now it has to spend a move action getting up, and won't be able to hurt you that round (provided you've managed to spring back out of its reach - the Quick trait from UA is good for this, as is Fleet of Foot (FR regional feat)).

Option A: Take the first two attacks as normal. Use the final attack at -10 to trip the opponent (since it only requires a touch attack). Same deal, more damage.

Option B: Use this to counter an opponent who happens to be using Karmic Strike. You're going to be damaged anyway - may as well make the best of it.

Option C: Trip and opponent and take away its weapons. If combined with option A, use your first attack to trip - that way, you have the best chance to disarm the opponent. First attack to trip, bonus attack to disarm (with +4 from Improved Disarm, enemy at -4 due to being prone). Second and third attacks to deal damage. If combined with option B, disarm it to prevent further attacks (+4 from Improved Disarm, +4 from Deft Opportunist).

Anyone else have good combos for spring attackers, especially for preventing counterattacks by large/long-reach creatures using natural attacks, creatures with more than 10' reach, as well as Tumbling opponents which can avoid AoOs? I know Sidestep is a useful feat for this, provided you can somehow get an AoO...

I've updated the first post with the combos I could find from the last 6 months. Some feats I don't recognise, but I've added them in anyway. All good stuff :D

Lord Kiwi,

Precocious Apprentice + Arcane Mastery. Precocious Apprentice lets you cast a spell like blindness/deafness as long as you succeed at a level 8 CL check - which Arcane Mastery lets you take 10 on.

For first level casters, this can make all the difference in the world.

Where is Unbalancing Attack from?

NOTE: Anyone know where Unbalancing Blow, Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz are from? Without reading about them I can't see how option A works.

Unbalancing Blow is from Dragon #295 (page 73) - basically lets you use Dex instead of Str for tripping. Requires 13 Wis though...

Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz are from PHBII and were detailed in the previews - basically, the allow you to add a second and third attack to a spring attack (but require BAB +12 and +18 respectively).

Another thing to add to the Spring Attack tree is Staggering Strike.

Its in Complete Adventurer and if your opponent fails his Fort Save (DC equal to damage dealt via sneak attack) then he's staggered. That means he can only take a move or a standard action. I find this feat better than Hamstring attack, because it works better against multi-legged creatures and you still deal full sneak attack damage. Yes, they do get a save, but pile on the pain with a deadly precision weapon and other sneak attack enhancers and your DC will be pretty high.

Improved Feint and Staggering Strike also work nicely for melee rogues with the Spring Attack chain.

You can't always Spring Attack into a flank with an ally and you don't really want to suffer a full attack action if you engage a tank in toe-to-toe melee, so this combo makes the opponent's rebuttal somewhat less impressive when you have to trade blows on the front line and don't have a flanking partner.

Can I list class features that go with feats here too?

HiPS and Darkstalker means you can hide at will in the shadows if you've taken a one level dip in Shadow Dancer. Monsters with scent, tremor sense and all sorts of other nastiness that makes the rogue's Hide and Move Silently less effective at high levels are now shafted. Using Hide or Move Silently fools true seeing and invisibility so you're pretty much undetectable with Darkstalker and HiPS. Hooray for rogues! :D

Charging Smite + Powerful Charge + Leap Attack
Charging Smite is the PHB2 class feature for paladins. Add in a rhino rush spell which doubles your charging damage (Spell Compendium). Remember to say 'ATUKEN!' upon completion of the technique. And to pause in the same stance as when you hit your opponent for 3 seconds, with your cloak blowing in the wind, for dramatic effect.

Alrighty guys, tell me if you like this one... AFAIK, it's within the RAW...

Take the feats:

Defensive Strike (CW)
Mobility (PHB)
Acrobatic Strike (PHB2)
Power Attack (PHB)

In the first round, use total defense (standard action) and move away (move action) from your opponent to provoke an AoO against you.... because the AoO is caused by you moving out of a threatened square, you get a +4 bonus to your AC from mobility and a +4 from Total Defense. Because you have a +8 bonus to your AC, chances are your enemy won't hit you.

Now, in the second round, move through a threatened square by that opponent and use tumble to avoid the AoO from him. If you succeed, then you get a +4 bonus to your attack roll against that enemy thanks to acrobatic strike. Assuming he missed you when you used your total defense action in the previous round, then this round you also get a +4 bonus to your attack roll thanks to defensive strike. And IIRC, these are both unnamed bonuses meaning that you'd get a +8 bonus to your attack roll against that enemy... now if you had the Power Attack feat, you could subtract 8 from your attack roll for an extra 16 pts of damage with a THW, and still be able to make the attack at your full attack roll.

I'm not sure how well this feat combo would work in actual gameplay, but on paper it looks pretty good. The tricky part is moving about to get the bonus from defensive strike and acrobatic strike in the same round.

Also, it might be a little tough the get acrobatic strike as a pure fighter since tumble is a cc skill, but take a level of rogue later on so you can max out the ranks in tumble to qualify for acrobatic strike and add an extra 1d6 SA to your damage.

In the first round... <snip>
Now, in the second round...<snip>
....meaning that you'd get a +8 bonus to your attack roll against that enemy... <snip> to hit
Is spending 4 feats and 2 round worthy of a single attack at +8 to hit? Especialy since there is alwas a chance of being hit twice while setting it up?

If you convert the bonus into damage using power attack for +16 damage, I'd hope a half decent warrior should be able to do 16 more points of damage with 2 full round attack than a single attack, especialy since they're using a two handed weapon.

It's definatly an interesting attack style but probably contains too much running around to be practical.

Lord Kiwi,

I agree, it definitely isn't up to par with other combos... but I decided to toss something else in there that didn't revolve around the oh so popular karmic strike.

Mind you, Karmic Strike becomes severely compromised once your AC gets so high that your enemies couldn't hit you even after you took that -4 penalty to AC. A crafty DM could exploit either situation: have a low AC so that you can benefit from KS and the DM could send an enemy after you to do some massive damage to you if he were to hit; have a high AC and compromise the effectiveness of KS by sending weaker enemies after you so that they couldn't hit anyway.

Anyway, I will say that anyone who says fighters suck probably doesn't realize how good they can be with the right synergy, hence the necessity of a thread such as this.

Knockback + Superior Bullrush (3rd level ability of Warforged Juggernaut)

Requires a Large Warforged. When you strike with PA you get a free bull rush, when you bull rush you get a free hit with armor spikes. Just have effectively one-handed armor spikes (not difficult to do--make them bigger) Nearly infinite attacks...well until you run out of movement. Unfortunately require adamantine body feat lowering base speed of a medium warforged to 20 ft. Toss in some shock trooper to direct the poor bullrushee.

I agree, it definitely isn't up to par with other combos... but I decided to toss something else in there that didn't revolve around the oh so popular karmic strike.

Mind you, Karmic Strike becomes severely compromised once your AC gets so high that your enemies couldn't hit you even after you took that -4 penalty to AC. A crafty DM could exploit either situation: have a low AC so that you can benefit from KS and the DM could send an enemy after you to do some massive damage to you if he were to hit; have a high AC and compromise the effectiveness of KS by sending weaker enemies after you so that they couldn't hit anyway.

Anyway, I will say that anyone who says fighters suck probably doesn't realize how good they can be with the right synergy, hence the necessity of a thread such as this.


That's why you should use Robilar's Gambit out of the PHBII instead. It is similar to Karmic Strike (and stacks with it) and easy requirements (Combat Reflexes BAB +12). Enemies that "strike at you" get a +4 to hit and damage and in return provoke AoO with each swing.

Mind you, Karmic Strike becomes severely compromised once your AC gets so high that your enemies couldn't hit you even after you took that -4 penalty to AC. A crafty DM could exploit either situation: have a low AC so that you can benefit from KS and the DM could send an enemy after you to do some massive damage to you if he were to hit; have a high AC and compromise the effectiveness of KS by sending weaker enemies after you so that they couldn't hit anyway.
Combat Expertise is a prerequisite for Karmic Strike.

Knockback + Superior Bullrush (3rd level ability of Warforged Juggernaut)

Requires a Large Warforged. When you strike with PA you get a free bull rush, when you bull rush you get a free hit with armor spikes. Just have effectively one-handed armor spikes (not difficult to do--make them bigger) Nearly infinite attacks...well until you run out of movement. Unfortunately require adamantine body feat lowering base speed of a medium warforged to 20 ft. Toss in some shock trooper to direct the poor bullrushee.

Have they released rules for a large playable warforged yet?

Also, not so much of a 'Feat Combo' (even if it is a very potent combination of abilities). If there is such a thing as a large warforged I'll mention it in combos that have Knockback in it.

Saying that, maybe the title 'feat combos' is a little too restrictive and a section which includes class features may be in order.

Lord Kiwi,

Hi Lord Kiwi,

IMHO that's a good idea, else you might run into the feat combo limits quite quickly. Class feature + feat combos are unlikely to run out anytime soon :D

Regards,
Law

I'll move the combos that include rogue class features (we have a few already) into a new section and open the flood gates to feat/class feature combos.

If people can keep them simple to gain (maximum of 1 class feature) and inventive (pointing out sneak attack and improved feint go together doesn't need mentioning imo). Class features adds a huge list new avaiable abilities and I'd hate to see the good work done so far watered down.

Lord Kiwi,

Spectral Skirmisher & SideStep ;)
Being a Pixie is Soooooo cool ;)

Have they released rules for a large playable warforged yet?

Also, not so much of a 'Feat Combo' (even if it is a very potent combination of abilities). If there is such a thing as a large warforged I'll mention it in combos that have Knockback in it.

Saying that, maybe the title 'feat combos' is a little too restrictive and a section which includes class features may be in order.

Lord Kiwi,

There is a large Warforged in MM3, but it has a +4 LA with 4 racial hit die so not so playable. Also, you could use psychic warrior to get the expansion power giving a temporary large size.

Hexblade's Curse and Combat panache feat (sneering glower maneuver) if used together can give one foe massive penalties to hit.

There is a large Warforged in MM3, but it has a +4 LA with 4 racial hit die so not so playable. Also, you could use psychic warrior to get the expansion power giving a temporary large size.
Isn't that the quadraped one? The LA means it is playable but then again the guidlines about playable races say they need arms or equivelent, D&D contradicting itself, who'd have thought :p

Tempory size increases to qualify for feats? Always been a debatable issue that one, best leave it on the safe side and leave it out.

Lord Kiwi,

Actually, I'd like to add a bit to the combo Nazzareth posted above:

Combat Panache.
Goad.

This is almost ideal for a Hexblade, Rogue/Hexblade, or other high-charisma combatant.

Not only can you horribly penalize a foe's attempts to attack you, but you can also deny him the opportunity to attack anyone else. And it's not like the other maneuvers for Combat Panache aren't outstanding either.

And, of course, Hexblade's Curse and either Daunting Presence or Frightful Presence are icing on the cake.

Thanks Eidolon Faer I was going to add Goad to this combo however I could not think of its name, so I dropped it.

There are a few other feats that produce shaken effects on foes that would also work well with this combo.

The Combat Panache and Goad combo could also work well for bards and warlocks. As they can use spells, songs, invocations that produce effects that will stack with the Combat Panache penalty.

The Curse of despair and Frightful blast invocations would make this feat combo work for warlocks. Beguiling influence could also help with these feats.

Throw in Robilar's Gambit to fully take advantage of those to hit penalties.

Class feature/feat combo:

Power Attack
Dextrous Attack (Arcane Duelist 3rd)

I didn't come up with this, I just remember the sheer sense of disgust when I realized what it did.

Where can the Powerful Charge feat be found?

tanx :)

Here's an oldie, but a goody strictly for a fighter (for the sheer number of feats involved)

The TWF line plus the Ranged Combat line with Quick Draw

A fighter by 20th level would get 8, count 'em-8, attacks in one round with thrown weapons. Add in the Focus/Specialization line and that fighter is dealing out some serious hurt. What's not to like about that?

Where can the Powerful Charge feat be found?EBCS, MM3, MH

Sun School Martial Arts (CW), abundant step and your favorite monk bonus feats (grapple and stun fist are especially effective, but trip is also helpful vs some targets)

Dim-door to the bad guy and lock him up with the free attack, stunning or grappling him. Bring your rogue and BDF buddy along. It is highly unlikely whomever you've targeted will survive to do anything bad back to you.

Inspire recklessness from Warchanter (CW) and power attack. Power attack full on your entire full attack for the cost of armor class.

Intimidating rage and Show-Off (exotic weapon master) (or optionally a good intimidate score). Send an opponent all the way to "afraid" in one action. Optionally add some Menacing Brute levels to extend the duration of the intimidation.

oops. nevermind

Stunning fist + pain touch + sun school = opponents become stun, confused and nauseated

Evasive reflexes + combat reflexes + karmic strike = never suffer total attack again.

Not really a feat combo but worth mentioning the frenzied berserker inspire frenzy ability on summoned allies.

The classic Karmic Strike (CW) + Sidestep (MiniHB) is great for stopping a full attack action. Combine that with Elusive Target (CW), since you already have the prereqs and you're really hard to smack around.


I dont understand that well.
Are u assuming that the foe has already done a 5 foot step in his round?
Couse when making a full attack action is still possible to do a 5 foot step ,also between the attacks, so if go back 5 foot he can do his 5 foot step for swing the second attack.

The only possibility i see is to (in my round)keep my 5 foot step for making it at the end of my round, so my enemy has to reach me with his 5 foot step and finally when i ll make my first AoO the foe has no more possibility to move.

Is it correct?

Do u know other tricks ?

That's correct. Sidestep gives you a second 5' step.

The enemy uses his to close with you and perform the full attack. Then he cannot perform another 5' step to continue his full attack against you. The enemy can, however, continue his full attack against other adjacent targets that may be your allies.

Sidestep works very well against any creature that gets a Full Attack at the end of it's Charge.

Sidestep does not combine well anytime you charge your enemy, since you won't use up their 5' step before they full attack you back following the charge.

Sand Snare (Sandstorm) + Staggering Strike (Complete Adventurer)
- Sand Snare makes y